Either way, doesn't matter.

 

I'm going to quote from another board. I have this saved on my computer. It's really the best explanation I've seen regarding magazine springs:

Springs "rest" in their natural stress-free shape. When compressed or stretched within their normal service limits, they are well within the "elastic range" of the metal.

This is the stuff of Mechanics of Materials 101. When you stretch steel in a laboratory, it exhibits a relationship between tension and deflection that matches a rather uniform curve. This "curve" is actually a straight line all the way through the elastic range of the metal. It then falters and evens out within the "plastic range" of the metal. Once you exceed the ultimate strength of the steel, it fails by breaking.

The "elastic range" is defined as the range of tension you can put on a sample of material, within which it will stretch while under tension and then return to its original shape when the tension is removed. Just like a piece of rubber or elastic. You pull on it, it stretches. You let go, it returns to its original shape.

The "plastic range" is defined as the range of tension beyond the elastic range. We're talking permanent deformation here. The metal stretches at its weakest point and actually becomes thinner as it stretches. Tensile stress is concentrated in this thinner area, and this is where it will eventually break.

All springs are designed to be used in normal service within the "elastic range" of the metal. A coiled spring is in both tension and compression when not in its natural state. The helical coils are actually in flexure around the circumference, and of course flexure involves both tension and compression about a neutral axis. When you step on the middle of a steel bar that's supported at the ends, it experiences compression at the top and tension at the bottom. Springs experience this along the length of the coils, with the centerline of the coils being the neutral axis. When you stretch the spring from its natural state, and then compress it, you are just switching the "side" of the tension and compression. They reverse about the neutral axis.

So...

Because springs are designed to stay within the elastic range of the steel during service (and cocking the hammer of your weapon is well within the service range of the spring), you never permanently deform the spring. It will return to its natural shape when released. It does not "weaken" the spring to keep the hammer cocked. Just like it does not "weaken" a magazine spring to keep it loaded with ammunition.

These are rumors spread around the firearms community by people who don't understand basic Mechanics of Materials.

Can springs wear out without being stretched past the elastic range? Sure they can. Temperature fluctuations, rust, and cyclic shock loading within the elastic range can affect the cyrstalline properties of steel. But keeping your hammer cocked or your mag loaded isn't going to do it.

SKSboards.com

 

Thanks, Cumbia.
That's pretty definitive. Guess it's no problem to store them loaded. I will do so from now on.
Butch
(BTW, Cumbia indicate you're Colombian?)

 

I, too, have wondered about this. I have a Benelli Supernova Tactical that I store with the action closed and the hammer cocked. From everything that I have researched, it will not hurt it. However this is about the most definitive thing I have seen yet.

 

Ive always kept magazines stored will no ill effect - ALMOST. The only mag I have ever had issue with was the aluminum mag my bushmaster ar15 came with. What a POS - the feed lips separated and rounds would fall out if it was filled up to 30 rounds. Anyways no the springs wont be damaged and really what happened to the aluminum ar15 mag shouldnt happen but it was just a turd.

 

That's true. You can't store US Palm mags loaded, either, cuz the feed lips crack :mrgreen:

We should clarify that for any quality mags it won't matter if they're left loaded :twisted:

 

can't defend yourself with an empty mag :twisted:

 

I store most of mine loaded for several months, and with most of them I haven't noticed any problems yet, but one of the ones I loaded up and forgot about for a while, did show signs of a weakened spring (the lower 1/3 of the spring by floor plate held a slight curve shape like it would inside the magazine, after I took it out instead of straightening out along the same axis as the rest of the spring) , after I unloaded it once I found it.

I reloaded the mag and took it with me when I went shooting after that, and it still fed reliably. I just figure every now and then, after a couple months, it probably wouldn't hurt to use up the ammo in that mag, and leave it empty for the spring to decompress so the bottom doesn't start to hold a noticeable curve from the mag shape, for a few days, before you load it up and leave it for a while again. In this case it still worked out for me, but I could see how after repeated loading, and leaving for half a year on end or so, to sit somewhere, it could affect feeding issues, if it's not allowed to decompress again for a bit.

By the way, this brings me to a question I meant out about before. I remember either on this forum or on another one, someone used to sell newly made springs for a a couple dollars or so, a pop, so I've been wondering if anyone knows if anyone is still selling decent mag replacement springs. I can't hurt to have a few lying around decompressed somewhere, to replace worn ones, if needed.

 

I remember either on this forum or on another one, someone used to sell newly made springs for a a couple dollars or so, a pop, so I've been wondering if anyone knows if anyone is still selling decent mag replacement springs.

Wolff Gun Springs sells "extra power" springs for $9.00 each.
US Palm sells a "magazine rebuild kit" for about $15.00 (IIRC). It contains a new spring among other things.
At those prices I'd just buy more magazines.

 

can't defend yourself with an empty mag :twisted:

Excellent point! :allright:

 

You'll put more wear on the mag by loading, unloading, and loading again than you will keeping it loaded. I have a few new AK mag springs but they take up more space than a few spare mags do and a lot of the time it's cheaper just to buy a surplus magazine than it is to buy a spring.

 

In this case it still worked out for me, but I could see how after repeated loading, and leaving for half a year on end or so, to sit somewhere, it could affect feeding issues, if it's not allowed to decompress again for a bit.

How? It bounces back when you take the pressure off. It's made of spring, not clay.

People take 1911 mags loaded since WWII and fire them without issue.

You'll put more wear on the mag by loading, unloading, and loading again than you will keeping it loaded.

Truth.

 

I dont keep all my mags loaded but I do keep some of them, and a couple of chinese drums loaded and handy

 

How? It bounces back when you take the pressure off. It's made of spring, not clay.

People take 1911 mags loaded since WWII and fire them without issue.

You don't have to believe me man. All I know is it happened. Load up 30 rounds in all your mags, and leave them loaded for a year or two, then check out the bottom part of the spring a year later, and maybe you'll see what I'm talking about in one or more of them. As for it bouncing back after you take the pressure off, I never said the spring never decompressed, but once it did you saw a visible inward bend for the last 10-12 coils above the floor plate, while a new/still good spring decompresses along the same axis throughout. So something about the whole thing seems to put more stress on that bottom of the spring. It didn't just bounce back the same way the rest of the spring does.

And I don't have a 1911, but unless I'm blind, I do believe 1911 mags are fairly linear in their angle of compression on different subsections of the overall spring (no curve to the mag), so prolonged compression might not put as much stress on any single subsection of the spring. Not that I truly believe your 1911 example is the rule rather than the exception even in that case. Maybe that's something that complicates matters a bit, as I don't truly believe leaving it loaded indefinitely will cause less problems than allowing the spring to decompress every once in a while.

 

From what I've read, the collective knowledge of the AK community has been that it doesn't matter. CumbiaDude also posted the scientific explanation as to what that was the case. Folks who feel differently are free to do what they see fit, but the bottom line and fact is that it does not degrade the magazine spring if it is kept loaded or not...

 

You don't have to believe me man. All I know is it happened. Load up 30 rounds in all your mags, and leave them loaded for a year or two, then check out the bottom part of the spring a year later, and maybe you'll see what I'm talking about in one or more of them.

Did the magazine work with that spring? If so, what difference does it make?

 

its all good guys

 

i keep 1/2 load and 1/2 unloaded. go bag mags always loaded. HD mags, always loaded. the rest are just stockpiled for a rainy day.

 

From what I've read, the collective knowledge of the AK community has been that it doesn't matter. CumbiaDude also posted the scientific explanation as to what that was the case. Folks who feel differently are free to do what they see fit, but the bottom line and fact is that it does not degrade the magazine spring if it is kept loaded or not...

And from what I've seen, that's not really the straightforward fact/bottom line you make it out to be. Certainly most springs may stay true to that and just shrink up (decompress less when unloaded) along the same axis as time wears them out, but some will certainly also pull this bend near the bottom as time goes on.

Did the magazine work with that spring? If so, what difference does it make?

It worked, but you still felt a noticeable difference with the way the follower climbed up when stripping the rounds out of the magazine. With time and further prolonged (maybe another several years) storage it doesn't seem too hard to believe that eventually the spring would retain the bend at the bottom to such a point, that tension on the follower gets so uneven at its front and back, that somewhere along the way upwards the follower binds up in the mag body.

 

Whatever, dude, I guess you'll believe what you'll believe; but all my research, the collective knowledge of people a lot smarter than either of us on this issue, and even practical experience tells me otherwise...
One bad mag/spring does not a trend make. :doh:

Do what you feel is best, but I for one will not be convinced that keep mags loaded or unloaded has any detrimental effect on the springs. I have had AK mags that have been loaded for a year or two, and not one of them has ever shown any negative effects from it.

 

[quote:18ydpvkl]Did the magazine work with that spring? If so, what difference does it make?

It worked, but you still felt a noticeable difference with the way the follower climbed up when stripping the rounds out of the magazine. With time and further prolonged (maybe another several years) storage it doesn't seem too hard to believe that eventually the spring would retain the bend at the bottom to such a point, that tension on the follower gets so uneven at its front and back, that somewhere along the way upwards the follower binds up in the mag body.

[/quote:18ydpvkl]

I would not take your experience with a single magazine spring to be representative of all AK magazine springs.
I owned one AK and three magazines for 18 years. I kept one magazine loaded at all times that I wasn't actually shooting the rifle. Since I never marked or otherwise distinguished the magazines I have no idea how long any of those magazines spent loaded but the minimum time would be 6 years if by some miracle I chose a different magazine to leave loaded every time I finished shooting and by a further miracle I never chose the same magazine twice in a row. It's more likely that one or two spent more than six years loaded during those 18 years. None of the magazine springs have taken a set. None of the magazines have failed.
Since 2004 I have acquired other AK magazines to go with the additional AKs I have acquired. Some of those magazines have been loaded (except when they were emptied at the range) since I acquired them. None of those springs have taken a set. None of those magazines have failed.
I suggest that your spring which deformed as a result of being compressed for some time was defective or, if the magazine was used when you got it, the spring was simply worn out.

 

I would not take your experience with a single magazine spring to be representative of all AK magazine springs.
I owned one AK and three magazines for 18 years. I kept one magazine loaded at all times that I wasn't actually shooting the rifle. Since I never marked or otherwise distinguished the magazines I have no idea how long any of those magazines spent loaded but the minimum time would be 6 years if by some miracle I chose a different magazine to leave loaded every time I finished shooting and by a further miracle I never chose the same magazine twice in a row. It's more likely that one or two spent more than six years loaded during those 18 years. None of the magazine springs have taken a set. None of the magazines have failed.
Since 2004 I have acquired other AK magazines to go with the additional AKs I have acquired. Some of those magazines have been loaded (except when they were emptied at the range) since I acquired them. None of those springs have taken a set. None of those magazines have failed.
I suggest that your spring which deformed as a result of being compressed for some time was defective or, if the magazine was used when you got it, the spring was simply worn out.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you did not keep any single magazine loaded for 6 years ON END, without using in your AK on the occasion of shooting, correct? You just reloaded it after you came back from the shooting range, and let it sit like that until however many shooting sessions later you picked that mag to take with you again, correct?

Because in that case that is not the same thing as what I've been saying. I too have kept magazines loaded for months on end in-between taking that particular one with me shooting, and then reloaded it instantaneously after that to sit another bunch of months until the next time, but the point being, it did not sit there for several years, without the chance to decompress on occasion. And to date I haven't noticed any of them with the "set" in the spring either. Now this spring may have been worn out, but it didn't appear to be seeing how it decompresses to a greater length than some of the others that have not "set". Additionally this spring came from a surplus mag, so even if that was the case, there's plenty people that have used surplus mags including you guys, so I don't buy it that this would be the one AK spring in the whole world that just happened to have the qualities that made it do this.

One bad mag/spring does not a trend make. :doh:

One out of 20 that i have/have had, is 5% for me. Not all others of which have been loaded for years on end without the chance to decompress every once in a while. So the percentage might get a bit higher even. Not that it matters any to the person in a SHTF situation seeing how it's a 100% if you just so happen to have the one mag in 10 or 20 that does this, and to a point that it becomes a problem for feeding, in your AK at the time you least need it.

I have had AK mags that have been loaded for a year or two, and not one of them has ever shown any negative effects from it.

Again, refer to my 5% trend. If you use a small enough number of magazines, it may never occur. I'm curious though, how many magazines have you done this to, and have you put them right back in there for another 2 years to sit after you used them?

 

Whatever, dude, I guess you'll believe what you'll believe;

I guess you're right.

 

I can't wait for the bickering to cease. I'm anxious to talk about potential feed-lip failure. (As with the AK 74 mag and USGI M-16, not the Euro 47 mags.)

 

Really, you can't see the point here? It's still only one mag!

You keep harping on the fact that it's "5%" of your collection. That means nothing. 5% = 1/20 is a lot different that 5% = 100/20000. Percentages out of such a small population will always be inflated.

Say I have a bad tire on my car, that equates to 25% of my tires being bad; does that mean that 25% of all tires are bad? Thousands of people with the same tires have no problems with them, but could I still insist that 25% of all tires are bad? It doesn't make any sense.

Plus, if you had a 1000 mags and one had a bad spring, it'd be only 0.1%; do you still think that's significant?

The bottom line is that there are hundreds of people out there with thousands of mags who keep them loaded without adverse effect. You're raising an unnecessary alarm for anyone who doesn't know it isn't a problem.

You simply had a bad/worn out spring, and it had nothing to do with the fact that the mag was kept loaded despite your insistence that it was.

I'm curious as to why you can't accept that fact?!?